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2014 Q8 Design of Relays suitable for environment
#11
(23-02-2018, 09:28 AM)Jerry1237 Wrote: Reading time is for reading the question! In case anyone is not aware, there is a period of reading time prior to the exam starting. From memory it is ten minutes but could be five. It is not long enough really.

It was 5 minutes until about a decade ago, but has been 10 minutes per paper for a long time. 

Not allowed to do anything than turn/ move the question paper and read and think- no writing implements, post-it notes etc

Apparently a lot of people in the exam centres fail to use it and spend the time chilling out; probably they are amongst those who then fail the exam.

You are not just looking for your favourite topics to see if there is a question on them, but are really considering:
  • what the examiner is seeking in each of the precisely worded questions,
  • thinking about the range and how it matches what you can offer for each,
  • thinking about whether you feel it is one that you can see how to present within the time allowed,
  • looking carefully at the mark allocation within any question in which there is a bit you are less confident on to see how much that is likely to impact your performance on the question as a whole.
Then evaluating the various possible questions (let's hope 5 or 6) which 3 you can do the best.
PJW
Reply
#12
(23-02-2018, 09:28 AM)Jerry1237 Wrote: Reading time is for reading the question! In case anyone is not aware, there is a period of reading time prior to the exam starting. From memory it is ten minutes but could be five. It is not long enough really.

It was 5 minutes until about a decade ago, but has been 10 minutes per paper for a long time. 

Not allowed to do anything than turn/ move the question paper and read and think- no writing implements, post-it notes etc

Apparently a lot of people in the exam centres fail to use it and spend the time chilling out; probably they are amongst those who then fail the exam.

You are not just looking for your favourite topics to see if there is a question on them, but are really considering:
  • what the examiner is seeking in each of the precisely worded questions,
  • thinking about the range and how it matches what you can offer for each,
  • thinking about whether you feel it is one that you can see how to present within the time allowed,
  • looking carefully at the mark allocation within any question in which there is a bit you are less confident on to see how much that is likely to impact your performance on the question as a whole.
Then evaluating the various possible questions (let's hope 5 or 6) which 3 you can do the best.
PJW
Reply
#13
(23-02-2018, 09:28 AM)Jerry1237 Wrote: Reading time is for reading the question! In case anyone is not aware, there is a period of reading time prior to the exam starting. From memory it is ten minutes but could be five. It is not long enough really.

It was 5 minutes until about a decade ago, but has been 10 minutes per paper for a long time. 

Not allowed to do anything than turn/ move the question paper and read and think- no writing implements, post-it notes etc

Apparently a lot of people in the exam centres fail to use it and spend the time chilling out; probably they are amongst those who then fail the exam.

You are not just looking for your favourite topics to see if there is a question on them, but are really considering:
  • what the examiner is seeking in each of the precisely worded questions,
  • thinking about the range and how it matches what you can offer for each,
  • thinking about whether you feel it is one that you can see how to present within the time allowed,
  • looking carefully at the mark allocation within any question in which there is a bit you are less confident on to see how much that is likely to impact your performance on the question as a whole.
Then evaluating the various possible questions (let's hope 5 or 6) which 3 you can do the best.
PJW
Reply
#14
(23-02-2018, 09:28 AM)Jerry1237 Wrote: Reading time is for reading the question! In case anyone is not aware, there is a period of reading time prior to the exam starting. From memory it is ten minutes but could be five. It is not long enough really.

It was 5 minutes until about a decade ago, but has been 10 minutes per paper for a long time. 

Not allowed to do anything than turn/ move the question paper and read and think- no writing implements, post-it notes etc

Apparently a lot of people in the exam centres fail to use it and spend the time chilling out; probably they are amongst those who then fail the exam.

You are not just looking for your favourite topics to see if there is a question on them, but are really considering:
  • what the examiner is seeking in each of the precisely worded questions,
  • thinking about the range and how it matches what you can offer for each,
  • thinking about whether you feel it is one that you can see how to present within the time allowed,
  • looking carefully at the mark allocation within any question in which there is a bit you are less confident on to see how much that is likely to impact your performance on the question as a whole.
Then evaluating the various possible questions (let's hope 5 or 6) which 3 you can do the best.
PJW
Reply
#15
(23-02-2018, 02:44 PM)steak Wrote: That’s a good idea. I’ve been looking a single line Signalling system question and it could be interpreted in a couple of different ways. I don’t know how “black and white” the marking system is. Ie you either have answered the question or not.

There certainly isn't any form of set answer.  Each question is marked individually as whether it does answer the question asked; this is done by two examiners separately and the scores they awarded then compared.  Perhaps think of it a bit like the judging on "Strictly Come Dancing" and the marks do not always agree 100%, but generally there is a general consensus.  Difference is that if scores are significantly different, the exam administrator then gets them to discuss the discrepancy- I believe that when this happens it is more normal for the lower scoring examiner to be persuaded that something which initially seemed tangential was actually properly answering.  If however there remains disagreement, a third person then marks.

A question can certainly be interpreted quite differently; if such interpretation is within scope then it is valid.  Often this could be influenced by the sort of railway being considered in the context.  In the case of a failure having a major impact on a London Underground line then it is generally best to completely suspend the service / turn it back at a suitable place whilst technicians attend to the fault- this is partly about access but also how frequently stations are and the wide variety of alternative routes within the network or by surface transport.  On NR generally need to hold trains at the site, then hand signal trains through the area for an extended period, perhaps thinning the service.  Depending on one's background therefore the words of the question can make different sense.

Some ambiguity and flexibility in the question is often deliberate, but there have been cases when it has been accidental. A question intended to be about the alarms and automatic replacement of signals to danger in the event of a SPAD was worded somewhat poorly and many candidates took it as meaning a train protection system such as TPWS.  Although they admit that this was unintended, when the examiner re-read their question from that perspective they accepted that it could be taken to mean that, so where the answer was written from that understanding then full credit was given to those answers which actually responded to the specifics in the question rather than regurgitating a lot of unasked-for detail relating to TPWS.

You are doing exactly the right thing in analyzing the question and considering the type of answer expected.  Many people fail completely to see the need to do this and spend all their time preparing for the exam in the "acquire basic facts" mode- the arks are not for that.  Requisite knowledge is taken as a given.
PJW
Reply
#16
(25-02-2018, 10:17 AM)PJW Wrote:
(23-02-2018, 02:44 PM)steak Wrote: That’s a good idea. I’ve been looking a single line Signalling system question and it could be interpreted in a couple of different ways. I don’t know how “black and white” the marking system is. Ie you either have answered the question or not.

There certainly isn't any form of set answer.  Each question is marked individually as whether it does answer the question asked; this is done by two examiners separately and the scores they awarded then compared.  Perhaps think of it a bit like the judging on "Strictly Come Dancing" and the marks do not always agree 100%, but generally there is a general consensus.  Difference is that if scores are significantly different, the exam administrator then gets them to discuss the discrepancy- I believe that when this happens it is more normal for the lower scoring examiner to be persuaded that something which initially seemed tangential was actually properly answering.  If however there remains disagreement, a third person then marks.

A question can certainly be interpreted quite differently; if such interpretation is within scope then it is valid.  Often this could be influenced by the sort of railway being considered in the context.  In the case of a failure having a major impact on a London Underground line then it is generally best to completely suspend the service / turn it back at a suitable place whilst technicians attend to the fault- this is partly about access but also how frequently stations are and the wide variety of alternative routes within the network or by surface transport.  On NR generally need to hold trains at the site, then hand signal trains through the area for an extended period, perhaps thinning the service.  Depending on one's background therefore the words of the question can make different sense.

Some ambiguity and flexibility in the question is often deliberate, but there have been cases when it has been accidental. A question intended to be about the alarms and automatic replacement of signals to danger in the event of a SPAD was worded somewhat poorly and many candidates took it as meaning a train protection system such as TPWS.  Although they admit that this was unintended, when the examiner re-read their question from that perspective they accepted that it could be taken to mean that, so where the answer was written from that understanding then full credit was given to those answers which actually responded to the specifics in the question rather than regurgitating a lot of unasked-for detail relating to TPWS.

You are doing exactly the right thing in analyzing the question and considering the type of answer expected.  Many people fail completely to see the need to do this and spend all their time preparing for the exam in the "acquire basic facts" mode- the arks are not for that.  Requisite knowledge is taken as a given.
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#17
That is good information thanks PJW. 

From my personal experience so far, acquiring basics facts is not the problem as there are multiple sources of information for most of the syllabus, its the type of answer and style that i'm finding difficult to get my head around.

From what I can tell I need to learn the "basics facts" of a subject, turn the facts into knowledge, understand the question and how to apply that knowledge in a clear, structured and time efficient manner. I believe this is the key to passing or failing. Sounds easy now i have written it down.....
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#18
(27-02-2018, 03:37 PM)steak Wrote: That is good information thanks PJW. 

From my personal experience so far, acquiring basics facts is not the problem as there are multiple sources of information for most of the syllabus, its the type of answer and style that i'm finding difficult to get my head around.

From what I can tell I need to learn the "basics facts" of a subject, turn the facts into knowledge, understand the question and how to apply that knowledge in a clear, structured and time efficient manner. I believe this is the key to passing or failing. Sounds easy now i have written it down.....

In the words of a former boss of mine when someone get the message "our work here is done"! Can you spread the word with other students that you meet!
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#19
(23-02-2018, 11:15 AM)Jerry1237 Wrote: A decent stab but the question was asking about environment, i.e. vibration, climate controlled, specifically about immunity (EMI) so a choice was required and DLR is DC, IP rating, materials, i.e. fire regs. How does DLR deal with immunity is the AC/DC areas such as parallel running to the GE Main Line? Consideration of application is required too, i.e. correct relay type selection - timers, high load, numbers and types of contacts.

After looking at a drawing of a relay (BR930) recently and then compared it to my exam attempted, I've released my design does not even work!!!!!! 
Will attempt the question again in the future
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#20
(08-03-2018, 01:06 PM)steak Wrote:
(23-02-2018, 11:15 AM)Jerry1237 Wrote: A decent stab but the question was asking about environment, i.e. vibration, climate controlled, specifically about immunity (EMI) so a choice was required and DLR is DC, IP rating, materials, i.e. fire regs. How does DLR deal with immunity is the AC/DC areas such as parallel running to the GE Main Line? Consideration of application is required too, i.e. correct relay type selection - timers, high load, numbers and types of contacts.

After looking at a drawing of a relay (BR930) recently and then compared it to my exam attempted, I've released my design does not even work!!!!!! 
Will attempt the question again in the future
Certainly I was aware that your drawing had its inaccuracies, but in many ways it wasn't too bad- it had all the main parts labelled up.  I've seen worse so don't beat yourself up over it, but yes it could be improved
PJW
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